Courtney is joined once again by Jessica Johnston-York from the Carruth Center to discuss one of their favorite activities – reading! Join us for a rambling adventure as we discuss different genres, the benefits of reading, and what we’ve currently got queued up in our own personal libraries!


Hey everyone. Welcome. Welcome. Welcome to Wellbeing Wednesdays. My name is Courtney Weaver. I'm your host. I'm the director over at Well WVU here at West Virginia University. I am joined once again by Jessica Johnston York. She is a psychologist here at the Caruth Center, and so we're super excited to have her back.

So, Jessica, hello? Hello again. Um, so if you could remind our avid listeners, uh, of your role at the university. Yes. You're many, many avid listeners. Um, yeah, so I, um, am basically one of the counselors working at Caruth Center. So crew center has, uh, counseling services. We also have psychiatric services. Um, I think last time I talked, we were online.

We're still online. So we are doing tele-health counseling now. So if you're good with zoom, we can, we can work with you. Um, we also help get students set up if they are not located in West Virginia, um, and our meeting, um, other resources outside of the area, we can get you set up there too. Awesome. You know, I think it's, it's funny.

Cause I think you were my first guest over Zoom. Yeah, I didn't have this back in March, so, and we're, we're still here. We're still doing it, practicing that responsible social distancing. So they're physical distancing. We want to move social part, physical distance. Um, so actually we're here today to talk about the joy of reading.

So both Jess and myself are. Avid readers. Um, I've actually been making a list of all the books that I've read this year. It's always something that I want to do, but I was like this year, I'm going to be intentional about it. Um, and so just wondering to tell us a little bit about the benefits of reading.

Yeah. So reading has a number of, I think, both like physiological and also psychological mental health benefits. Um, I think the biggest one for me is that it increases your empathy. So there is a study that looked at, um, children who read Harry Potter. Um, and you know, I know we both love Harry Potter and that's a very, very popular read.

Um, but being exposed to, uh, stories of children who had gone through adversity, who had had different life experiences, children actually became more empathetic after just reading about these fictional characters, which is amazing. Um, so we can kind of. Relate to other people's experiences, learn more about ourselves, kind of develop more empathy just through reading.

Um, It also helps us manage stress. Um, it actually like lowers heart rate and blood pressure when you're reading, which is very cool. Um, helps with cognitive decline, you know, use it or lose it. If you're actively working your brain through reading, um, it'll help you kind of later in life. Um, helps with memory and sleep, um, really has a plethora of benefits, right?

And so since this is wellbeing, Wednesdays, uh, let's talk about reading for wellbeing. So obviously when you're reading, it helps increase your knowledge, your awareness, and it gives you some exposure to different perspectives, which you touched on with increasing your empathy. Uh, but why else might people read for their wellbeing?

I think there's a lot of reasons that people might and you might have different reasons why you go to it? I think my reason for rating like changes a lot, so it kind of depends on like mood. Um, you know, sometimes I think you need like an opportunity to escape. And I think that's like where fantasy reading is really helpful.

Like, okay, I need to get out of here. I need to check out and go somewhere else. I need to go to Mars. I need to go to mortar. You're not here, you know? Um, so an opportunity for escape, um, But also, I think it can be nice to have like this validation and connection for your experiences too. Um, so I've really enjoyed reading more diverse reads because it helps kind of get this sense of like, Oh, I'm not alone.

Other people get this. Like there are other voices here. I'm not the only person experiencing this, which I think is really important. It also can help like build community. So, uh, we were talking before we started recording and I actually just finished a book. Uh, I had started a book club last year when I lived down in Florida.

And, uh, it was with a bunch of just random friends of mine. And the whole point was I need to read something beyond these romance novels that I tend to tear through. No, no problem with that. That's my secret shame. It's not a secret anymore. No, it's not a shame either. No shame. You read what you want. Um, so the, the book club we met once a month and actually because of the pandemic they're meeting virtually, so I can still be a part of it, uh, which is silly.

So it's nice to see some of my old friends, but also talk about different, uh, books that we've chosen. And we always try to. Choose a different style. So a mystery, this last one actually was a fake rock biography. That was really fun to read and apparently it into a show on Amazon prime. So cool. I loved it.

It was, it was really good. I liked how it was written. Anyway, we'll talk about that in a minute. So yeah. And then there's also a lot of podcasts out there that talk about books and I know you have a, you have some that you listen to. Just, yeah, so I am a huge reading nerd. I have like several podcasts that I listen to.

Probably my favorite one is reading glasses. Um, and they, they do. Every now and then they also do book clubs. So they'll like do like an Instagram live or like a YouTube live stream, um, and have different, um, books that they're talking about on there, which is cool because like I'm talking to people that I've never met before, but we all have share this passion for reading.

So. I think it can connect you in a community that like you already have and like kind of build that up or it can create any community that you otherwise didn't know existed. Yes. Um, and then there's also that nostalgia of rereading or reading after you've seen the movie. And this was true for me. Cause when I was in college, I saw the Keira Knightley version of pride and prejudice and I loved it.

Yeah. I saw that movie five times in the theater. It's fine. Um, I. I remember getting home from the theater and immediately going, I need to purchase the book cause I had actually never read a Jane Austen novel before. And so that was the first one that I ran and then I subsequently read not all of them, but a few more.

Um, And it was great because it was like reliving the magic of the movie as I was reading and then sort of on it too. Cause obviously the movie left some bits out, but yeah, like I just want to stay in this world a little bit longer, like prolong the feeling I'm actually just finished reading the princess bride, which is fantastic movie and the book is great.

So it's like. Yeah. And it's funny, cause my dad was making fun of me cause he's like, haven't you seen that movie a million times? Like, why are you reading this? But actually spoilers don't impact her enjoyment of reading. Like we think that, Oh, if you know the ending, like that's gonna ruin it for you. Um, and I get pissed when people spoil things, but um, There's there's famous examples like Romeo and Juliet Shakespeare tells you right at the beginning that they're going to die at the end and you still enjoy it.

And it still shocks you when you get there, you know? Um, so even if you do know how things go, it can still be really enjoyable to relive the experience. Well, it's funny. I, after I never read the books for game of Thrones, but I've watched what I remember after the red wedding, I had no spoilers because I couldn't handle that kind of shock.

Um, again, someone told me about the red wedding before I'd even seen the show. And so I knew it was coming so I could kind of brace myself a little bit. So I, um, wasn't as much of an emotional bracket as most people, which was probably helpful actually. Yeah, it was really jarring, uh, watching it. So I can't, I have to know, I have to know what's going to happen.

I know what to expect. Um, so let's talk about the different genres of books that are out there. So usually you just hear fiction and nonfiction and like, that's it, but that's. There's so many sub genres underneath both of those. So fiction, I mean, you have, I guess, standard fiction, but then you have a historical fiction and then you have paranormal fiction and then fantasy.

And then, um, what else? Romance. Oh yeah. And you can even subdivide there. There's historical romance. There's contemporary romance, you know, Yeah. Yeah. Teen fiction, which should always holds a special place in my heart, who I'm a big fan of a teen young adult novel, uh, too. That's what I'm currently reading.

And I feel like. When things are really stressful when I'm reading something, that's a little more low stakes, like, you know, this teen is experiencing heartache and like, yes, that, that was hard for me when I went through that. But also it's not a global pandemic. And so like, I can live in that world and that feels safe to me.

And then we have our nonfiction, which to be honest, I. They've never been a big nonfiction reader until kind of recently when I've read more about like true crime, I'm going to say that that's your, even your niche, right? Like I read, um, all be gone in the dark by mirror, so good. Right. I had to, and it's now an HBO documentary series.

It started this week. I need to watch for a subset, but I, I could only read it. In public in the middle of the day, because it scared the crap out of me. Yeah. So I, I'm a huge scaredy cat. I can't really do for her. Um, I've, I've read a little bit, but it's hard for me. Um, but true crime is different from four cause that happened to real people.

And that could actually happen to me unlike when I read horror and it's like, Oh, there's a zombie. I'm like, Oh, I'm probably okay. But. There's someone breaking in your house. Ooh. Okay. That's that's real. Right. Uh, and then I know you and I will listen to a true crime podcast called my favorite murder. And the host of that show wrote a book called stay sexy and don't get murdered.

Uh, and I was really good. I think the. Host of that. One of the hosts, her name's Karen . She wrote a chapter on being a latchkey kid. And I think that was the funniest thing I have ever read in my life. I was laughing out loud and that doesn't generally happen. Even if I find something really humorous. So still lots of enjoyment in those nonfiction books.

Yes. Yes. There's tons of nonfiction books that are like written by comedians. So if there's someone you like, like a celebrity that you follow, they've probably written a memoir and that's a really accessible, easy way to get into that and learn more about them and just have those laugh out loud moments.

And then something else that's like sort of burst into, I don't know, maybe not burst. They've probably been around for a long time, but are like the graphic novels and the comic books. Um, I have, I'm not huge into the graphic novels. I read Watchman many years ago that remains the only graphic novel I ever.

Have read because I couldn't get into the format of it. It was just for my brain, but I know so many people love that particular style of book. Yeah. I think that can be nice if like what I hear from a lot of people, why they don't read is they say it's hard to sit down and concentrate. And so the, the great thing about like a graphic novel or something else that short form is you can just read these little chunks and if your brain wanders after 10 minutes, Hey, you got through a huge chunk of your reading.

You got something out of it. Um, so I, I think that can be nice if, if you're not someone who likes like a traditional, like novel format. Yeah. And then there's also poetry. Uh, so I'm a, I'm a fan of poetry. I don't, I don't know many books on it, but I do enjoy a good poem. Although to be honest, I always like poems that rhyme, which isn't like Siri to be home, but.

Uh, it's just, but it makes sense when it rhymes. I get that. Yeah. Um, but you know, and then there's also short stories and novellas and novellas, or I don't know what the criteria is to be categorized as a novella, but usually those are shorter novels. Yeah. I want to say maybe less than 200 pages. Um, so it it's yeah, a shorter kind of longer.

And I don't know what the, you know, what's longer than a short story, but shorter than a novel, somewhere in that sweet spot of a hundred new 200 pages, I think don't quote me on that. We'll Google it after. Um, so what are some ideas for folks who want to get into a book? Like how should they choose what to read?

Yeah. Cause I think that can oftentimes be overwhelming if you like go in a bookstore or library and you're like, there's so many books. What do I do here? Um, I, I really enjoy like, so I love movies and if there's a book based on a movie, I love reading the book ahead of time. And, and sometimes like, you all read it afterwards.

If I were like, really like the movie and I'm like, Ooh, I need to stay here. Um, So I think that can be really, um, you know, a way to like prolong the enjoyments of like, Oh, I'm anticipating the movie. Let me read the book. First. Um, bestseller lists are really good place. So New York times always puts out a bestseller list.

Um, actually they have kind of completely changed their bestseller list. Cause now all of these, like anti-racist reads have been selling a lot more recently, which is fantastic. So like now those are like covering the bestseller list, which is really cool. I know what we always did was just Googled at the end of the meeting, like good book club books.

And then every, every time we did it, which was monthly, a new list of books would come up. So we would get on a list, choose one. But then those other books that were on the list that didn't get chosen would get abandoned for the next month, because yeah. I know, and I'm probably the worst person to ask, like what to read because I have, um, so I use the good reads app, which kind of tracks your reading.

Um, and I have like a thousand books on there, like literally a thousand that I say I want to read. So it's actually no longer helpful to use it in that way. Um, but you know, for book clubs, like you're looking for something that kind of generates discussion. So I think it's helpful to think about like what kinds of things you want to read and how to go about finding that.

Um, if you really hate choosing things though, um, there's also a book of the month. Which if you sign up for it, if you like subscription services, they'll just mail you a book. Um, if you only have to choose between a list of five options. So if you hate choosing, make someone else do it for you, I guess. Uh, and then there are also, um, we talked about the podcast already.

So you talked about reading glasses, then there's one called professional book nerds, which I haven't listened to, but have you. Yes. So that's run by overdrive, which is a, um, app that, um, gets the access to eBooks and audio books. Um, they like related to overdrive. There's another app called Libby, uh, lib DUI that I use a lot.

It's really great. Um, for getting, uh, access to things. Uh, from the library, which has been super nice at this time, because I hadn't been able to go to the library for awhile. Um, but they put out, um, a lot of content on there. They'll interview authors. They'll talk about new reads they'll um, do like thematic ones.

So that's, that's a really good one to listen to them. And then book tubers, which I imagine is a YouTube. Community. Yes. Yeah. So there are folks who are on YouTube. Who'd like do like series that, just talk about books. Um, so I, I'm not a big a YouTube person, so I, um, I don't have too many specific recommendations on that, but, um, If there is someone you follow or you want to like search for book to there, there are people who kind of do regular series.

And then that could be a good way to get in. If you're already on YouTube, see what somebody thinks about a book and then decide if you want to read it yourself. Yeah. And then books to Graham, which is the book community on Instagram. Yup. Yup, exactly. And that can be a good way to get kind of like a focus look.

So if you're wanting someone who does like, you know, I want to read more black voices. Like you can follow, um, uh, black books to grammar and like, see what they're reading, which could be helpful. Yeah, for sure. And so for accessing books, you know, you always have those folks who say, I can't use an E reader.

I like to hold a book. In my hands. I like the feeling of turning the pages, which I like to smell it, like to smell it. Yeah. It's like an old book that you had, which is really just the smell of a library, I think. Um, but so you have print books, but then you do have the eBooks and there are so many companies that have E readers, um, with just millions of books in their library that you can.

Like purchase or what's cool is like libraries, community libraries. There, they have eBooks too, that you can rent. So you don't have to necessarily pay for each book you read on your Kindle or Noecker whatever app that you might use on your phone, which is really cool. And then are you a fan of audio books?

I love audio books. I, it took me a little while to get to, but the reason I love him is because I can read two things at once now. Cause I'll, I'll have my, either Prince Booker ebook and then I'll listen to something and I've leveled up. So I listen at two times speed. So I get through it faster. I don't know that I recommend that for everyone.

Cause some people actually like to, you know, slow down and enjoy the experience. But if you like to, you know, just devour your books at a rapid pace, highly recommend leveling up to a faster speed. And so there are also like subscription services that are for audio books. Like the one that's coming to mind is audible.

Um, but give you like a certain number of books per month based on your subscription price. Yes. Yeah. Another good one is a libero FM. Um, that's a subscription service and it's cool. Cause if for some reason you didn't want to use Amazon, um, you have access to this, which, um, Funds from it go to, um, independent bookstores.

So you can select like a bookstore that you want to sponsor and it'll send money to them, which is that's. Yeah. That's much better than sending it to a billionaire. Yeah. And then, um, for free books, so you have the little free library. So do you want to tell us a little bit what that is? Yeah. Have you ever seen those around town?

Oh, I see. Well, I made one, an animal crossing, so I have them on my Island. I love that so much. Well, that's existing in, in our physical world too. So, um, yeah, so you can go to their website, a little free library to look up the location. Um, here in Morgantown. I know of two of them that I've visited. Um, so on the rail trail, near a Terra cafe, you know where that little like playground is?

I can't, I can't remember the name of the playground, but there's, there's one located right there. And then there's also one of the botanical gardens and basically it's this little. You know, wooden box, um, that people just leave books, take books, no limit to what you can grab there or what you leave. It's just open content that the community contributes to, which is fantastic.

Yes. And of course you have your public library, which yes. Okay, good. I always sing the praises of librarians. They're so cool. Uh they're they're they're heroes. I love them. They are. Um, and then the apps that you have listed here, Libby and hooplah. So we talked about, no, we talked about Libra Libra. So we have, what is Libby?

So Libby goes through your library, so you just need a library card. Um, and so does hooplah actually, um, so with Libby you get a certain number of holds, uh, that you can request and then a certain number of, uh, items you can check out. Um, so you might have a wait time for, um, eBooks and audio books, but for hooplah you get, I want to say somewhere around like five or six a month and that's, you can just hang onto it as long as you need.

So there's no waitlist. Um, you just get it. It's ready for you right there. And you can hang on to it. You can renew it. Um, you just get a certain number that you can check out per month. So if you are a slow reader who blog might be a good option for you. Nice. Okay. And then to own, we already talked about Libra, which is gives to independent bookstores, and then we have

I imagine that is something that's similar. Yes. Yeah. So that also, um, gets you access to independent bookstores. So, unfortunately, I mean, we've got some department like larger bookstores in, in Morgantown, but we don't have any, um, any indeed bookstores. Um, so if you're wanting to support a local, small business, um, you can shop directly, um, through them and find them on or you can just purchase from them.

And again, they contribute money to independent bookstores. All right. Well, all of those are great options. Um, so let's talk a little bit more about when a beloved book or book series is tarnished, maybe by the actions of its author. Um, as, or as we like to call her the author who shall not be named. We don't, we don't need to give her any more press she's had too much as it is.

So, so Jess mentioned earlier, her and I are both huge Harry Potter fans. Um, and for folks who have been paying attention at all, uh, The author has made some comments that are not supportive of the trans community in any way, shape or form. Um, and so that's tough because Harry Potter is a beloved series, um, by so many people from across the world.

Such a diverse audience, uh, and to have someone come out against an entire group of people is really disappointing and heartbreaking. And so what do you do because Harry Potter is everywhere. So what can we do, Jess? What are, yeah. You know, and I think it's so heartbreaking because like, Harry Potter is very meaningful to a lot of people.

Like it might've helped with your mental health recovery. It might've helped give you community. Some people have like Harry Potter tattoos, like they've invested in this, you know, you, so I understand. And I think for me personally, like, I don't want to just be like, Oh, I don't like Harry Potter anymore.

Like I can't not do that. Um, so I, I think that there's ways that you can, um, Take ownership over this series that you love, um, and that you have grown to, um, incorporate in your life that it has a life of its own. After the author has let it go. Like you are interpreting it and taking ownership over it.

And, and it's not the authors anymore. It's yours now. So I, you know, there's some kind of creative ways you can do that. You can, um, kind of really leave the original work and, um, get into fan fiction. Um, I don't, I don't read a whole lot of fan fiction, but if you want to go and read it or elsewhere, there's, there's tons of options.

I wrote Harry Potter fan fiction back in the day, like when I was in grad school, that was one of the ways. But I released, this is amazing. I won't ever tell you my screen name. Um, I don't want anyone to read it, but, um, yeah, I wrote, I like to write Dramani fanfic so it was like Draco in her Miami. Yes. I used to read a lot too of that fanfic and it's, there are incredible writers out there who are taking these beloved characters and just expanding their potential and, you know, taking this story in different directions, maybe be a direction that, you know, the original author never thought of or something that they've always wanted to explore, but it's awesome.

I think it's also a great way to work on your. Writing ability as well. Yes. We have a set of characters created and it's just your job to take them on a new adventure. Yes. Yeah. That can be again, a good challenge or way to get into writing. Um, if you like a mini Draco mashup, then a very Potter musical is probably for, you know, have you watched.

I watched most of it. I don't think I've seen the whole thing, but the original stars, Darren criss from glee fame, it started at the University of Michigan. Or the Potter puppet pals, which is on YouTube. Yes. Yeah. I also heard there's a, there's another musical called puffs, which is, I think it gives more, um, essential role to helpful puffs, which I'm a Hufflepuff and we're very, uh, undervalued.

So I appreciate that. Um, you're talking about like how to. Kind of take characters on a different journey. Um, I found out about this YouTube series called Hermione Granger in the quarter life crisis, which imagines this world where her meiny as a 25 year old dumps, Ron and moves to America and like has a whole new adventure.

So if you didn't like the Hermione and Ron pair up, which. I honestly did not see it. That can be a very validating experience to see that different fantasy lived out. Yeah. And then you you've mentioned the Harry Potter Alliance, which is a social justice organization. Do you know much more about that?

Yeah, so they have a lot of different causes that they support, um, from political causes to social justice causes to climate change. Um, Pretty diverse community. And I think they also support, um, uh, literary, like, like sending books to children who don't have access to them. Um, so if you're wanting to get more kind of active in that way, um, and also connects with some Harry Potter nerds, um, that can be a really great resource for you.

Cool. And then there's also a podcast called the Gayley prophet. Yes, I haven't listened to that one yet. Um, but, uh, yes, if you're looking for. Okay, how can I really stick it to the author who shall not be named and find more of a queer perspective on Harry Potter? That can be a great resource for you.

Yeah. And then there are also ways, like if you're still interested in the Harry Potter, like swag or things like that, there are so many artists who are independent of like Warner brothers and. Those companies that are selling their arts, like Etsy or Patrion, um, that you can get. And you're, then you're supporting those individual artists as well.

So if you still want that, you know, Gryffendor, t-shirt no way for you to have that. So, yeah, I think that's a, that can be a great way to, um, Express your, your support is putting your money where your mouth is so you can not support the author, but still enjoy all that good, good merge in a different way.

Um, you know, read Harry Potter books at the library rather than buying a new copy that company. Yes. Um, all right. And so finally, because, well, we've been talking a little bit about like, um, black books to Graham and things like that. So a couple of weeks ago we did a episode on like anti-racist resources, which was a lot of like books and films that people could check out, but it's not just reading.

Anti-racist resources, right? It's also about like looking at options for like fiction books that are written by black authors that take you on different kinds of journeys that are important as well. So do you have any like recommendations for folks if they are looking to expand. Their view. Yes, for sure.

There's, there's a lot of, um, black authors that I've, um, read fairly recently that I've really enjoyed. Um, so we were just talking earlier about, um, if you're into fantasy children of blood and bone by Tomi, Eddie Gemi, um, is really great. Um, she now has come out with a second in that, in that series. Um, so if you're looking for, um, I think it's a good Harry Potter Rita, like, because it kind of introduces this idea to magic and hero's journey.

Um, so I think that's a great place to start. Um, Courtney, I know you also like romance. Um, so Jasmine Guillory is a fantastic black author. Who is also a lawyer. I have no idea how she has the time to write these very successful novels and be a lawyer. Um, I can barely do one job. Um, but yeah, she she's written a lot of, uh, really great books, um, that kind of connect like minor characters will feature in like the next in her book.

Um, one of her favorite ones that I read was called the proposal. Okay. Will you check that out? Yeah. Yeah. Um, if you're looking for more of like a fiction or kind of literary fiction vibe, um, Colson Whitehead is a great read. Um, he wrote the underground railroad, which came out a few years ago, which was very popular, um, in his most recent novel, I think it came out last year.

Um, was the nickel boys, um, That one really resonated with me because I'm from Tallahassee, Florida, which is it's set in that area. And it's a fictionalized version of a real, uh, boys correctional school, um, that, uh, really mistreated, um, underprivileged and black boys. And, um, it's, it's a really, it's a hard read, but it's, it's an important read it if you're ready to have your heart dope and that's, uh, that's a good one.

Well, who doesn't love that when you're like, my guts are getting ripped out. Yeah, if you want something a little more fun on the lighter side, I just recently read, um, slay by Brittany Morris. Um, and that is set in, um, it's about a black teen girl who creates a. Um, RPG role playing video game that is just for black users. Um, and you have these different cars that use for battle that exemplify black culture.

And it's awesome. I would love to see a movie of this because it'd be fantastic. Oh, I'll to check that one out too. These are all on my now to read. List. And then you can also support black owned bookstores, which I believe there are many lists of them out and you can order from them online too, which is, which is really great.

So you don't necessarily travel anywhere in person, especially since we're still supposed to be relatively homebound at this point. Uh, and so Jess, what are you currently reading? Um, so like I said, I just finished princess Brian and I wanted something a little lighter. Um, so I'm reading this a fiction book called hot dog girl.

Um, uh, and what it said in a amusement park, um, and the main character is, uh, Dressed as a hot dog and that is her role. And so it kind of goes into like this fantasy romance that she wants to have, but, um, cause she's just the hot dog girl. So she can't like, you know, be the princess. Um, it's a very cute, like, you know?

Yeah. Well, so like I said, we said earlier, I just finished reading. Um, These Jones on the six, which I enjoy, they're making it into show. Um, and then right after that, I dived into the book American Royals. Um, Oh my gosh. I read it in two days. It wasn't so hard. And so many points because I just felt. So bad for all the characters at one point.

And of course it ends where nothing is resolved and coming out in September. Um, but I, I love that one. I'm also 15 books deep into this other series that I then has, I think, 18 books total. Uh, so we'll, I'll finish it because I can't not. Um, but that's more on like the. I wouldn't say paranormal, but it's kind of more of like a science fiction type feature, but there's a lone story for each one, which is, you know, my kind of escape.

Cool. Yeah. And that's a good way of never having to choose what you read again, just get this long series. That'll never end. Right. And I'm like, just keep churning out these books because I for sure will read all of them. That's another thing, like once if I start a series, generally I will finish it, even if I don't particularly because I have to know how it is.

I think that's how I read all the 50 Shades of Gray books. Cause we read them. Yeah. We wrote the first one for a book club several years ago and I was like, Oh, I got to read the other two because I have to know what happens, but I'm sorry, they're not great. Um, and it prizes from like a sex educator perspective, horrible depiction of like BDSM and just so toxic.

Anyway, uh, that's a whole other episode of applied. We can talk about, um, well we talked for so long. It's fine. Whenever I find another reader, it's very hard for me to reign it in. So I apologize if this was not fun for anyone else. And like, sorry, if you're listening on U92. Cause apparently they play the podcast twice on Wednesdays when it's released on U92.

So if you were wow, can you just get Courtney and Jess hour talking to you about the books they like to read? I would say, sorry, but I'm not. Uh, so, so just thank you for taking the time to, to talk and, uh, we'll probably have you back on at some point. Um, but to all our listeners out there, thank you so much and we will catch you next time on Wellbeing Wednesdays.